Responding to the Critics: What About Matthew 10:23- #2
Be sure to read the first installment of this series as we continue Responding to the Critics. I am sharing with you an exchange between myself and Sam Frost, former preterist, who claims to refute preterist claims about Matthew 10:23. Here is that text:
And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
As noted in the first installment, this passage has perplexed scholars and laymen alike for centuries, because it seems– clearly so– to predict Christ’s coming in the first century. But, Mr. Frost totally re-frames the issue, claiming that the coming -the parousia- of v. 23 is referent to Christ’s ascension in fulfillment of Daniel 7:13-14 and Acts 1- and not to his “Second Coming.” The truth is that Frost’s position is totally untenable, and without merit. (Keep in mind that others engaged in the discussion, like Robert Statzer and Julienne Chambers, both of whom offered some good points. However, for brevity, I am not including their comments).
Let me share again Frost’s post at which we concluded the last installment, and then, I will share my response and more of the exchange.
Here again is Frost’s comment from the first installment:
//So, if the Gospel had been preached to every nation, creature, creation and person by the TIME PAUL WROTE (59-60 CE), then “the end” should have come. Notice…Paul wrote, according to Don K. Preston’s interpretation, that it HAD ALREADY HAPPENED. Thus, the mission of Paul and the Disciples preaching HAD BEEN FULFILLED before Paul wrote Colossians 1.23!
Let us read Preston’s own words: “Paul used those identical words to say that the Gospel had been preached in all the earth, to the whole world, to all the nations, to every creature.” Again, “If Paul wanted to communicate the idea that what Jesus predicted / commanded had been fulfilled, what other words, terms or phrases MUST he have used, instead of the ones that he used?” THESE ARE PRESTON’S WORDS. Therefore, since what “Jesus predicted” was “had been fulfilled” when Paul “communicated” his words to the Colossians (59-60CE), THEN THE END SHOULD HAVE COME THEN and not 10 YEARS LATER!!!
Such a goof.
BUT, and notice Don never touches this point, IF ALL heard the Gospel by then (60 CE), then they MUST HAVE FINISHED going through the cities of Israel! BUT, Jesus said that they WOULD NOT finsh until he comes!
Such goofs.” (All comments about “goofs” are Frost’s).
On 10-28-19 Frost offered this:
I’ll finish with this. To “fit” everything in with the Hyper Pret interpretation, Jesus, to the effect, MEANT this: ‘You will preach the gospel to every creature under heaven, in all creation, to all the nations and in the whole world, to the inhabited Roman World in this generation, but you will not finish going through the cities of Israel proclaiming the Gospel to them until I come.”
The Hyper Preterist Mess.//
I responded to this:
The reality is that you are misapplying Matthew 10. Jesus’ referent to not finishing going over the cities of Israel was not to their evangelistic efforts, but to their FLIGHT FROM PERSECUTION
//When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.//
When they persecute you FLEE– You will not have gone over the cities of Israel — in their FLIGHT– before the Son of Man comes//– which has nothing to do with his ascension.
PERSECUTION AND FLIGHT ARE THE CONTEXT AND ISSUE, MR. FROST– NOT EVANGELISM. Your attempt to create a contradiction where there is none, exhibits your continuing argumentum ad desperatum.
Caps for emphasis only.
Oh, by the way, just for fun. Sam Frost says that I did not address his argument on Matthew 10– but, see above where I do. But, in addition to my arguments listed above that he ignored, did you notice what else he ignored? Here it is:
//Now, Mr. Frost tells us that Matthew 4-14 entails “the entirety of the Christian enterprise” (notice that he assiduously avoids the term “Christian age” because he denies that there is such a thing as the Christian age).
He tells us that “the end” is the end of human history, the end of time. But of course, Frost denies that the message of the fall of Jerusalem was, in any way, shape, form or fashion, “the gospel.” Mr. Frost assumes, without so much as a keystroke of proof, that “the end” is the end of time (for which there is no proof), and that “this gospel” refers to something unrelated to the message of the fall of the city and temple. Of course, that is a presumptive position. The disciples, in direct response to Jesus’ prediction of the temple, asked about the end of the age.
Now, ask yourself: What age were they asking about? The end of WHAT age? Well, it was the age that the temple represented – what ever age that might be- but, it most assuredly was not the “Christian enterprise”! Mr. Frost, what age did that temple represent? Will you tell us?
Were the disciples wrong to connect the fall of that temple with the end of the age? If so, please prove it.
If they were right, – and you have admitted previously that they were– then in reality, your entire paradigm is falsified, because the end of the old age is the full arrival of “the age to come.” Thus, if the age – the then present age – ended with the destruction of the temple, guess what, the Gospel was preached into all the world, then the end came, and we are living in the “age to come.”
By the way, Mr. Frost, what age are we living in, right now?
Notice that Mr. Sam Frost gave us not a keystroke. Not a syllable. Typical. He accuses me of not answering, but, he is the “master” of not answering, of totally ignoring my arguments.
On 10-29-19 I responded to some of Frost’s earlier comments:
Don K. Preston -Truly argumentum ad desperatum. Jesus said “this gospel of the kingdom will be preached into all the world as a witness to the nations, then comes the end.”
Jesus did not say the gospel will be preached into all the world and the end will come “immediately”– But, Mr. Frost demands that “then comes the end” must- if preterism is true – mean the very day that the Gospel was fully preached, the end came. Thus, when Paul said, writing in the early 60s that the Gospel had been preached into all the world, to all creation, that the end MUST (in his “logic”) have come that very year. No, “then” Mr. Frost, not immediately.
And it is kinda funny– and surely revealing– that Mr. Frost says I did not address Matthew 10. So, he totally, 100% ignores my arguments, but, if I don’t answer every word he types then I have revealed the weakness of my position!
Mr Frost,the reality is that you are misapplying Matthew 10. Jesus’ referent to not finishing going over the cities of Israel was not to their evangelistic efforts, but to their FLIGHT FROM PERSECUTION.
//When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.//
“When they persecute you FLEE”– You will not have gone over the cities of Israel — in their FLIGHT– before the Son of Man comes//– (which has nothing to do with his ascension- the fact is your view of Christ’s coming in this text is anachronistic).
PERSECUTION AND FLIGHT ARE THE CONTEXT AND ISSUE, MR. FROST– NOT EVANGELISM. Your attempt to create a contradiction where there is none, exhibits your continuing argumentum ad desperatum.
And let’s not forget this, which of course, you totally ignored:
For Mr. Frost’s post to have any validity, AT ALL, he must prove that every single text, in which Paul affirmed in Colossians 1:23:
That the Gospel had been preached to all the nations, (ethne)
That the Gospel had been preached to all the world, (kosmos)
That the Gospel had been preached into all the earth, (ge)
That the Gospel had been preached to every creature, (ktsis)
That the Gospel had been preached to all the world (oikoumene).
Not one of those texts actually mean anything! They don’t say “fulfilled.” They don’t say “has been preached” (even though the texts do say this)– no, no, they don’t say that! In fact, they CAN’T say that, cause if they do (and of course, they DO!) then Mr. Frost’s futurism becomes a thing of the past.
Couple all of these emphatic declarations with the multitudinous temporal statements that the end was near– when the Gospel had been preached to all the world, and the message is very clear. Mr. Frost has done nothing but adopt a message of denial. He denies the language of fulfillment, and he denies the language of imminence.
Caps for emphasis only.
Sam Frost Responded:
So, again, to make my ORIGINAL POINT: Did ALL CREATION include the CITIES OF ISRAEL?
Sam Frost ” Amen I say to you, you shall not finish all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man come” (DRA)
” When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes” (ESV).
“‘And whenever they may persecute you in this city, flee to the other, for verily I say to you, ye may not have completed the cities of Israel till the Son of Man may come.” (YLT).
So….ALL CREATION HEARD by 60 CE (when Colossians was written); but “YOU” (the Twelve Jesus was talking to, original audience relevance, remember) – will NOT finish going through the Cities of Judea, Israel….but they DID finish going through “the WHOLE WORLD” – ….hmmmmm
Now, Jesus said, “and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” So….did they manage to go through Samaria and the uttermost part of the earth, but FAILED to “go through the cities of Israel” until he “came” in 70 AD?
10-29-19
Sam Frost — Because, clearly, Jesus said that he would “come” BEFORE they finished “going through all the cities of Israel”. He did NOT say, ‘you will finish going through all the cities of Israel, and THEN the son of man will come”. The first part of their mission was to go FIRST to Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria (the cities of Israel). Did they do that? Was this “finished” before or after 70 AD?
Jesus is plainly saying here that they would not FINISH going through the cities of Israel UNTIL he came….which means that they WERE given the TASK and MISSION to COMPLETE going through the cities AFTER he came as well……..So, when did they COMPLETE “going through the cities of Israel”? (EoQ)//
As the reader can see, Mr. Frost was totally evading the issues involved, denying the emphatic words of the Gospels and of Paul. It is truly sad and revealing to see Mr. Frost’s desperate attempts.
Stay tuned for more as we continue Responding to the Critics and as we show the meaning and power of Matthew 10:22-23.
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Source: Don K. Preston